Dialogue With A Theist

A few days ago I received one of those chain-letter emails that circulate everywhere over the Internet. This one, complete with illustrations, claimed to be a memo to me from God on the subject of life. It requested that I refer any problems I couldn't handle to Him and that He would get to them in His own time. In the meantime His memo suggests that, instead of worrying about my problems, I should consider my blessings and remember that things could be a lot worse. God even gives some examples like:

Should you grieve the passing of another weekend; think of the woman in dire straits, working twelve hours a day, seven days a week to feed her children.

Should your car break down, leaving you miles away from assistance; think of the paraplegic who would love the opportunity to take that walk.

This chain-letter struck me as being so odd that, instead of deleting it, I sent a message back up the chain...

Hugh: You mean if God is being unkind to me, I should be grateful because he's even less kind to others? Gee, thanks a lot, God.
...which elicited a reply from a theist named

Bill: Your response also misses the point. The point is that a faith can sustain one through bad times, not that it can necessarily create good times. It gives one perspective on life.
Hugh: Perhaps Epicurus (341-270 BCE) makes my point better:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

I would add to that, how can you find the worship of such a deity comforting? I cannot feign the lack of discernment required. I cannot do, as Martin Luther (1483-1546 CE) tells me, "Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason." Faith does not, as you say, give one perspective. It narrows it.

Bill: And if this is Epicurus' view of God, then Mankind is but a puppet and what is the point of life? No, there is free will, and shit happens.

Hugh: You're missing Epicurus' point, which says nothing about human predestination or free will. It only asks, why worship a deity that is either a source of evil or unable to prevent it, or both!
Speaking of predestination and free will though, here's an amusing little conundrum to think about:
Premise: God is all-powerful and all-knowing.

If He is all-knowing, He knows in advance all actions He will take in the future. If He is all-powerful, He must be capable of changing His mind. How can this be? If He is capable of taking an action He has not foreseen, then He's not all-knowing. If He can't, He's not all-powerful.

Bill: And where do you take your comfort? In the great nothingness of being? In idle pleasures? In the bottle? If one does not live for a higher purpose, then life has no purpose. And that quote by Martin Luther is great, for God is not found in reason, but in . . . what's the word . . . faith! Exactly!
I would counter that a life without faith definitely narrows perspective as when one is left only with reason how does one make sense of death, disease and human suffering? Without a higher purpose to life, there is only senseless death, disease, suffering, and ultimately senseless life.

Hugh: Before you cast reason aside so quickly Bill, you need to tell me how you judge which faith to follow (we'll deal with the purpose of life presently). Whose revelation is truer? Yours? St. Paul's? Mohammed's? Buddha's? Joseph Smith's? Or that of the fellow down the block who hears voices when he stops taking his medication?

If you answer that you know it intuitively (ie: I know it because it feels right in every fiber of my being), you must know that everyone mentioned above knows that they are right for exactly the same reason. It happens that you were born into a culture where Christianity is a dominant theme, so the probability of you seeing the world from a Christian perspective is hardly surprising. But if you had been born in India, Iran or ancient Greece, the odds are that you would see things the way they do there... and with same fervor and certainty that you feel now. Since most religions claim to know ultimate Truths and generally see them quite differently, they can't all be right. Is faith a virtue for all of them?

Now let's look at the meaning of life and a sense of purpose. You say that mine is the narrow viewpoint, yet yours excludes far more than mine. Yours does not include the Muslim's view, or the Hindu's, or the ancient Greek's... and you cannot judge them rationally since, where faith is concerned, you say reason has no application. Since I am under no such restriction, I can look at each with an appreciation for the elements within them that resonate with me personally. For instance, I like the Greek ideal of developing the individual to his highest potential and the Jewish version of the Golden Rule as a guide to living as part of the community of mankind.

All of us create our own meaning and purpose in life-even you. I don't need an Ultimate Purpose to love my family or work for them. I just do. I can find awe in the vastness of the universe and a sense of wonder about it without needing an immediate (and further-inquiry-stifling) answer to everything. I find joy in learning about the world and sharing it with others. I don't need promises of eternal reward or punishment to keep me from acting like a lone wolf because I am not a wolf. I am a human being capable of understanding the consequences of my actions. If I want to expect civilized behavior from others, I know it behooves me to cooperate by being civilized myself. The Golden Rule doesn't mention God because it doesn't need to. It makes sense all by itself.

I'll leave you with a quote from James Watson, Nobel prize winner and co-discoverer of the form of the DNA molecule. When an interviewer asked him about the meaning of human existence, he replied,
"Well I don't think we're for anything. We're just products of evolution. You can say, ‘Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose.' But I'm anticipating having a good lunch."
Best Regards,
Hugh
Note: Since it's now been over a week since I've heard from Bill, I guess I get the last word by default.

Hugh Kramer is a member of Atheists United and is active in Humanist causes in the Los Angeles area.